1/18 photography question

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:33 pm

I've started to collect 1/350 scale ship models (gasp!). The reason i chose this scale is that it abounds in ship models and because they are about 1/18th the size of 1/18 scale. So in other words they are 1/18 scale models of the 1/18 scale models i wish i had. A cheat but a good one....

Anyway, my question is this. Would it be practical with a normal digital camera to photograph the ship model in a perspective way, positioned a few feet in front of a 1/18 model of a plane, tank etc to make them both appear to be in scale with each other?

I know the perspective trick will work but it's the actual photographing of it that i'm concerned about, as i think either the object in the foreground or the object in the backround will be out of focus. Is there some way of photographing them both at the same time and having them both in focus?

Any other things i should know to make the perspective trick work well?

Shutterbugs to the rescue!

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:15 pm

I'm no photography expert, but you want the 1/18 scale item in the foreground.

As for being able to have them both in focus? Perhaps you can try manual focus. Ultimately, it comes down to your camera having the capability.

Google up forced perspective. That may be the track you're looking for.

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:37 pm

Wha..... digital camera and aferg in the same post? I am not sure I believe my eyes!

flpickupman is right about the forced perspective idea. Also, a camera with manual focus options is ideal (I recently purchased a Canon A590 IS that allows a lot of flexibility), but many also have a macro mode that should let you get away with the effect you are looking for. Your bigger challenge may be lighting, to maintain a consistent lighting effect for both objects.

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:20 pm

no i definitely want the 1/350 scale ship in the foreground to make it look as large, scalewise as the 1/18 plane in the backround. I'm trying to make the ship look bigger, not the plane look bigger. It's the opposite of lord of the rings, where they were trying to make the large people look like small hobbits.

For example, one of the things i would eventually want to do is to get a 1/350 model of the Akagi, and position it and my bbi zero in such a way that it looks like the zero is taking off from the carrier. So the carrier needs to be several feet in front of the zero to make this work.

I hadn't considered the lighting....another complication. I believe my camera has manual focus.....but what do i set it at to keep all objects in focus?

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:34 pm

I think what you are wanting is Depth of Field Adjustment.

I recently had this problem photographing the little Johnny Lightning Star Trek models, and wanted to get both the foreground and background ships.
Also when taking close-ups in Macro Mode you need this adjustment if really close to an object so even it's edges aren't blurry.

I made sure I got a Digital camera that had this feature, and I think it only works in the "Super Macro Mode" on my Canon G6.

The Wiki explains it better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:35 pm

Typically, you would want the widest angle setting you can get for the focus.

The best thing is to try some experimenting - different cameras handle manual focus differently, depending on the camera lens, among other things. If your camera allows you to hook it up to the computer and view on screen while shooting/focusing, do so (I know most of the digital SLRs will let you do this, but not all cameras will).

As far as lighting goes, the best option would be natural daylight, i.e. outdoors. Another alternative would be to use two similar lights placed at similar angles and distance to the objects.
I was looking at a "mini" studio on Sportsman's guide that is good for smaller stuff, complete with soft lighting and compact tripod. Using Photoshop to combine two separate images may also be a solution, if you have the patience for outlining.

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:44 pm

hm.....i had considered photoshop but know nothing about it at all.....how easy it is to use, cost etc. That may ultimately be a better way to go, perhaps.

I think this idea has some neat potential in both showing these smaller ships in '1/18 scale' via the forced perspective and of doing little dios like the above mentioned zero/akagi or customizing some german sailors and posing them behind a model of the bismarck so it looks like they're standing on the deck, posing my bunker hill avanger torpedoing the yamato (from the yamato's perspective) etc.

I can do the same thing just looking through my blurry little eyeball but the 3 dimensionality of sight waters down the forced perspective and it would be nice to capture these things permanently.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:54 pm

It is easier to keep both objects in focus if, say you put your ship which is smaller behind the much larger plane for instance bearing down on it.

The size difference already creates this illusion without spacing them too far apart. I did this with the Large Star Wars Titanium AT-AT Walker, then put a couple of the smaller scale ones behind it. The effect was that the smaller ones appeared far away even though they were right next to and just behind the larger Walker.

This advise comes from a guy who can't even load a photo on the web very well.

I am taking computer courses at the local Community college however. Specifically to use Photoshop, Illustrator etc.

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:07 pm

Photoshop can be relatively pricey (I think around $500-600 a license, last I checked on freestanding licenses instead of as part of Creative Suite). But it is fairly easy to learn the basics and the potential is almost limitless. A coworker and I did something similar to what you want to do using my 1/18 Corsair, some of his 1/32 armor, and a water/sand picture taken at one of the local beaches. With some manipulation (like blurred props and changing numbers) and slightly different angles of the Corsair, we ended up with a squadron of about 5 flying over a large contingent of armored vehicles. Add a little "noise" and speckling, convert it to grayscale, and it could almost pass for real.

He did something similar, combining some 1/32 aircraft and some pictures he took of the Midway and snippets of historical photos to create some disturbingly realistic looking flightdeck shots.

Fritzkrieg · Post by **Fritzkrieg** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:39 pm

I've tried this a few times, if the scale is small enough, you can put it close enough to the 1:18 item, that it stays relativly in focus.
Here is an example.

RED · Post by **RED** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:49 pm

Hey yall!!! AFERG---Does it have to be a 1:18 Zero??? Can you use a 1:144 Zero??? That might help overcome the scale gap some!!! I used a 1:144 Hellcat with my dio and it was only 10-12 inchs over the Marines heads!!! If I would have used a 1:18 Hellcat it would have been 10-12 feet over there heads!!!So maybe this could work for you too---Hope this helps and hope you post your pic soon!!!

---RED---

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:39 pm

Did you hang that Hellcat Red, or Photoshop it?

Damn that looks real.

RED · Post by **RED** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:47 pm

Dauntless wrote:Did you hang that Hellcat Red, or Photoshop it?

Damn that looks real.

Hey brother!!! I took the pic with the plane on a small thin stick and photoshoped the stick out of the pic!!!

---RED---

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:24 pm

As for a good photo editing program, The Gimp works really well for me. Does just about everything that Photoshop does, but for free.