Red Tails - January 20, 2012

[B17Fortress]

New Trailer Added

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQdUOWcsCrE

"How do you like that Mr. Hitler?"

This movie looks great!

[gburch]

"How do you like that Mr. Hitler?", indeed -- must have been a shock when the good Nazis discovered that untermenschen were shooting down their planes . . . A nice revenge for Jessie Owens.

I watched the "featurette" on the making of the movie on the same Youtube channel -- well worth the time. Seems the director and Lucas (thank god Lucas is only producing and not directing) went out of their way to make sure the kids playing the airmen were inspired by time spent with the surviving Tuskegee Airmen -- an excellent idea to motivate them to do their best.

[cjg476]

I know some of the flying seems a little far out...but Im pumped...I love war movies...seem to be few and far between these days...Cant wait to go see this one

[Dauntless]

Redtails P-51's in Prague 2009. There's at least three.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=athETK-ba5w

Interesting at the end they are washing the paint off to reveal the real plane is "Old Crow"
Must be a water based silver paint.

[cjg476]

Yeah they did that with the ju-52 from valkyrie too...

[Dauntless]

I didn't know that. The JU-52 was cool. Awesome movie too. I heard a while back Tom Cruise was supposed to be cast for Flying Tigers. Maybe it was here in Dragon53's movie thread. Wonder what ever happened? We need more war flicks like you said. Maybe after this one it will blow the doors wide open.


I think there's another You Tube video with a Tuskeegee Airman where he says the stripped down to metal planes were faster because of less paint. (this we knew of course)

[cjg476]

Yeah the ju-52 was a silver one they painted camo...and I didnt know ut I heard the bf-109's were actually the spanish made ones from after the war...and this is the first one since valkyrie...I love watching them...Defiant was ok...but not very good...it would be cool if HBO did another thing like band of brothers or something...

[gburch]

I heard a while back Tom Cruise was supposed to be cast for Flying Tigers.

I had forgotten about the bit of news about the Flying Tigers movie in the works! Wouldn't it be great if it also came around next year? I'm no Tom Cruise fan . . . but a Flying tiger's movie will definitely make me forget about that. (At one point, I actually spent some time trying to write a novel about the Flying Tigers . . . but that project ended up dying like so many others . . .)

Having spent much of my adult life working in some connection with China, anything to do with the Flying Tigers will be something I'm keenly interested in. Last year I was in a meeting with some lawyers from Zhejiang province. Afterwards, we were chit-chatting, and it turned out the head of the group was also the chairman of a historical association there devoted to preserving the memory of the Doolittle raid and the Flying Tigers. Needless to say, we had a lot to talk about. I learned there are still a handful of people in Zhejiang who were involved with saving Doolittle fliers and smuggling them to safety. The mao tai flowed very freely over that, for sure!

[Dauntless]

That's a cool story gburch. Actual history from the people that were there. Sad they were punished severely in Manchuria with anthrax for aiding the Doolittle pilots.

I had read that someone found an early P-40B Tomahawk that was an actual Flying Tiger that crash landed in a lake in China. Don't know if they salvaged it yet.

There are plenty of airworthy P-40's out there, though it would be really nice if they actually got some P-40B Tomahawks for the early Flying Tiger days. I've seen at least two flying examples on the web, one at Duxford England, and I believe there's one at Chino California. There's a few in restoration, some from Pearl, even one from Russia. With CGI and authentic planes it could be over the top.
Then they can always get some later P-40E's etc. for when the USAAF took over. I'm sure they used a few in Redtails already.
John Woo was supposed to direct it, though most all the complex CGI on every film is handled by Lucasfilm anyways.

Maybe this will speed up the process for Peter Jackson's "Dambusters" also. I guess they put it on the backburner since taking on "The Hobbit"

[sdcc73]

Nothing said (regarding product) just less than 1 month away from movie debut.

Hopefully this does big numbers. So by the time the Blu-ray comes next Christmas; maybe a store will do an exclusive for their Christmas toy aisles. Walmart, Target, Toys R US, Kohls, or even Best Buy all do exclusives with Bluray releases. Anybody know anybody who works for these stores? So hopefully any of the 1:18 companies with a P-51, P-40, BF-109, FW-190, or ME-262 (on the posters) can sell something next Christmas.

[DropTank]

Don't know if any of the major retail chains will commit to reality military items. Seems sometimes people complain about these products in the major chain stores and some companies may shy away. Of course they all like to make money, so if any products do come to life and they can make money, perhaps. Otherwise if any products sprout from the movie, on-line may be the best alternative. I think any product release will depend entirely on the movie's box-office success. It all boils down to profits IMO.

[sdcc73]

Yeah. Looks like we're going to have to see if the film is a success. Not even Star Wars toys appeared the same year of its own film year's release. I'm hoping its successful enough to get maybe just 1 plane (store x-mas exclusive) in retail. Retailers like big box exclusives + expanding the toy aisles every x-mas. So hopefully the film is successful "enough" to have just 1 plane, in just 1 retailer, as an x-mas exclusive, this year.

[gburch]

I don't think the timing is right to hope for an xmas release Tuskeegee model 10-11 months after the film's been in the theaters. And as for Star Wars, the whole toy tie-in was an unknown back in the time of the original Star Wars movie. Since then, the movie studios have honed development, production and marketing of toys to fit the timing of a film's release to a fine art. Given the lead time required for such a campaign, studios have to commit to toy campaigns many, many months before a film hits theaters

Bottom line, IMO, if we were going to see a "Red Tails" model in connection with the movie, we'd already know about it.

[cjg476]

I saw the redtail p-51 going for $320+15 shipping with 3 days left before the guy pulled it off ebay. I dont think we'll see anything new and I think if anyone is trying to get a 1:18 scale one its going to get pricey.

[sdcc73]

I terribly neglected to mention my idea of 1 exclusive item at retail should definitlely coincide with the retail release of the latter mass-marketing of the Blu-ray / DVD retail release. Take into account the millions who already watched it many months in theaters (and more with Netflix + iTunes + Red Box rentals) and we got a great window of opportunity. An opportunity to strategically mass market along with the DVD release at retail, strategically during the holiday season. Stores love offering big gift box exclusives in Xmas time. Coincidentally, Xmas time is thee perfect time to likewise release DVDs/Blu-rays gift box sets, too.

Thusly, many specialty stores we don't associate toys with (like electronics retail giant Best Buy) will sell toys (even toy exclusives) when there's a DVD release. Examples include Best Buy selling exclusive Star Wars Toys, DC cartoon movie toys, and various other toys; sold specifically when there's a DVD release at retail. Barnes Nobles, another specialty retailer, also sold Star Wars toys, Comic toys, released specifically + strategically in tandem with DVD releases at retail. Thusly, if AGT or BBI can strike just 1 deal with 1 retailer for only 1 plane (when the Bluray is released strategically in the holiday shopping season) that would be one GRRRRREAT one-shot item.

(crosses fingers)!

[Buckyroo]

I heard a while back Tom Cruise was supposed to be cast for Flying Tigers.

A side note to all of this is that Cruise owns a P-51..... so that would most likely increase his desire to make a quality WWII flying film, assuming he has a true passion for the warbirds.

[Dauntless]

Maybe a missed opportunity with this movie for any merchandising, but like sdcc73 mentioned, it ain't over till the DVD release. If it's really popular than surely something somewhere will follow in the way of toys. Any toy maker is probably having a wait and see attitude these days.

If I had Tom Cruses money, I'd own a P-51 too. That and I would revive 21st Century Toys or be the major stock holder in a similar company, and everyone would get their 1:18 and 1:32 planes and armor, or start a model company that does four engine bombers in 1:32 and possibly 1:18 fighters model kits.

Kind of like what Peter Jackson does with his Wingnut model airplane company. Only he's just interested in 1:32 WWI.
Too bad he doesn't develop a 1:32 Avro Lancaster Dam Buster to go with his movie if it ever comes out.

[CessnaDriver]

Swell. Tom Cruise in a Flying Tigers film?
First I've heard of that. Hope it doesn't come to be.
I simply cannot stand the sight of the guy, never understood his appeal on any level, and personally think he is out of his freekin' mind and is in a dangerous money cult. That alone means I won't put a dollar in his pocket with a ticket purchase.
I hope I never share airspace with the kook. He might go chasing after Lord Xenu in that Mustang. May that warbird find a new owner soon.

I caught a Red Tails commercial, sadly it was hip hopped up with the typical fast edit Yo Dawg, this is an action movie with explosions! Probably just marketing but it was massively out of step with the history and hope that the film is nothing like that ad.

[gburch]

Swell. Tom Cruise in a Flying Tigers film?
First I've heard of that. Hope it doesn't come to be.
I simply cannot stand the sight of the guy, never understood his appeal on any level, and personally think he is out of his freekin' mind and is in a dangerous money cult. That alone means I won't put a dollar in his pocket with a ticket purchase.
I hope I never share airspace with the kook. He might go chasing after Lord Xenu in that Mustang. May that warbird find a new owner soon.

I caught a Red Tails commercial, sadly it was hip hopped up with the typical fast edit Yo Dawg, this is an action movie with explosions! Probably just marketing but it was massively out of step with the history and hope that the film is nothing like that ad.

My wife and I are film nuts (classic and otherwise), so there's a lot to reply to there . . . In many ways I have the same feelings about Tom Cruise. When I found out he had a Mustang, it made me die a little inside. BUT . . . even for the actors whose personal lives and personal beliefs and politics really make my skin crawl (like Cruise and a list too long to go into), there's a level beyond which I just can't draw a line, if the film or the film project is good enough.

For instance, as nice a guy as Tom Hanks is personally, I abhor his politics. But think about what he's given us: Saving Private Ryan, Apollo 13, From the Earth to the Moon, Band of Brothers . . . if I'd completely "stood on principle" about him, I'd have missed some really great stuff. So . . . if there's a modern Flying Tigers movie -- even if Tom Cruise is starring in it -- I'll hold my nose and see it.

Re the hip-hoppedness of the Red Tails movie: Every generation interprets history in its own way. Consider the great military and war movies of the late 40s through the mid-60s. The violence was sanitized, the acting was stylized, the moral issues were usually simplified. But they make perfect sense in the context of the times they were made. Heck, the Bard did the same thing: To come full circle, the "band of brothers" speech in Henry V certainly wasn't "real," and, it turns out, his plays about the Wars of the Roses depicted a very distorted pro-Tudor view of things.

I think we're just lucky that a bunch of 21st century Black American actors and filmmakers have devoted the time and effort to glorify the Tuskeegee Heroes. Last night I watched a little of Spike Lee's Malcolm X. In the opening scenes that took place during the war years, I was thinking about what the guys training down in Tuskeegee were doing while Malcolm X was hipsterting around Chicago in his zoot suit. It made me want to see Red Tails all the more.

I'll take the distortions in return for a good old fashioned hero story.

[pickelhaube]

Swell. Tom Cruise in a Flying Tigers film?
First I've heard of that. Hope it doesn't come to be.
I simply cannot stand the sight of the guy, never understood his appeal on any level, and personally think he is out of his freekin' mind and is in a dangerous money cult. That alone means I won't put a dollar in his pocket with a ticket purchase.
I hope I never share airspace with the kook. He might go chasing after Lord Xenu in that Mustang. May that warbird find a new owner soon.

I caught a Red Tails commercial, sadly it was hip hopped up with the typical fast edit Yo Dawg, this is an action movie with explosions! Probably just marketing but it was massively out of step with the history and hope that the film is nothing like that ad.

My wife and I are film nuts (classic and otherwise), so there's a lot to reply to there . . . In many ways I have the same feelings about Tom Cruise. When I found out he had a Mustang, it made me die a little inside. BUT . . . even for the actors whose personal lives and personal beliefs and politics really make my skin crawl (like Cruise and a list too long to go into), there's a level beyond which I just can't draw a line, if the film or the film project is good enough.

For instance, as nice a guy as Tom Hanks is personally, I abhor his politics. But think about what he's given us: Saving Private Ryan, Apollo 13, From the Earth to the Moon, Band of Brothers . . . if I'd completely "stood on principle" about him, I'd have missed some really great stuff. So . . . if there's a modern Flying Tigers movie -- even if Tom Cruise is starring in it -- I'll hold my nose and see it.

Re the hip-hoppedness of the Red Tails movie: Every generation interprets history in its own way. Consider the great military and war movies of the late 40s through the mid-60s. The violence was sanitized, the acting was stylized, the moral issues were usually simplified. But they make perfect sense in the context of the times they were made. Heck, the Bard did the same thing: To come full circle, the "band of brothers" speech in Henry V certainly wasn't "real," and, it turns out, his plays about the Wars of the Roses depicted a very distorted pro-Tudor view of things.

I think we're just lucky that a bunch of 21st century Black American actors and filmmakers have devoted the time and effort to glorify the Tuskeegee Heroes. Last night I watched a little of Spike Lee's Malcolm X. In the opening scenes that took place during the war years, I was thinking about what the guys training down in Tuskeegee were doing while Malcolm X was hipsterting around Chicago in his zoot suit. It made me want to see Red Tails all the more.

I'll take the distortions in return for a good old fashioned hero story.

Well stated GB.

[CessnaDriver]

I can handle Hanks, I can't explain his political views when he has made things Like John Adams and From The Earth to the Moon. But I can handle some of the political disagreement. He is not unlikeable at least in character.

Tom Cruise has nothing likable about him for me, literally cannot stand the sight of him, and it's one thing to be in political disagreement, another entirely to be a cult member king as he is. I find him rather frightning in that regard, his Ofrah appearance he demonstrating a high creep factor.
There is something truly spooky going on there.
I certainly got dragged to many of his films because women in my life wanted to go. But no more. And my wife now holds him in disregard as well.

If there is a John Woo Flying Tigers in the works, I'll have a choice.



If a hip hop ad gets a kid to go see a properly made historical film, great.
If they even study and take it serious, learn to fly. Good. Great.
If the film itself is hip hop in some way and lowers itself to be "contemporary" and dumbed down, I may not go, but I doubt that is the case. I think the ad is just marketing. I'll be reading reviews first. Since Crystal Skull I refuse to get burned again.

Is there a single rapper or hip hop artist that is a pilot?
I've never heard of one. It has nothing to do with WWII aviation.

[hotrodrock]

I probably watch too many military programs on the Military channel and the History channel. But, not once have I ever seen a program where there was actual pilot audio where pilots were saying all of these comments like "how do you like that Mr. Hitler" or "lets give those newspapers something to write about". I have never seen any pilot interviewed who has ever mentioned saying anything similar during combat. Maybe I just missed it somewhere along the way, but until I actually hear some pilots say they talked that way over the radio, its a complete turn off to me. Don't think any pilot would last very long in life and death combat spending time thinking about what snazy thing he was going to say next. Maybe I'm wrong since I never have and never will fly in combat. Now if you tell me there were lots of "oh s**t" and mf'ing and gd'ing, I could easily believe that.

There is quite a bit of audio of jet crews in combat from Viet Nam and the middle east. The majority of what I have heard is mostly heavy breathing due to the G forces they are pulling during aerial combat, not "take that you commie rat". So its a movie. I like realism even in a movie, not video game gimmickery.

[gburch]

Enter the KING
WESTMORELAND. O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING. What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

... Elizabethan equivalent of "How do you like that, Mr. Hitler!"

[Dauntless]

Jon Stewart George Lucas interview:

http://blog.zap2it.com/pop2it/2012/01/g ... efest.html

[Jnewboy]

Hanks may just say stuff to fit in with ultra liberal Hollywood where he works.

Redtails looks to be good, I hope it is, sometimes these sort of movies turns into a shooting gallery. If it turns into one black guy screaming into his face-mask "take that Hitler" as he shoots down me262 after me262 like some insane shooting gallery it might not be that good......I saw one preview that shows the 262 going by them about 10 miles an hour faster than they were flying

Unless of course its a comedy, thats what they should do, if I was making the movie I would cast: Eddy Murphy, Cat Williams, Martin Laurence and Cris Rock!! and get Tarantino or Spielberg to direct it!! Lots of use of e-bonics in the radio sets that no one can understand on the ground, the germans trying to understand it it, Cat Williams smoking weed in the cockpit, and lots of F-bombs and MF bombs over the radio, kinda a modern 1941