Bad Trader Report

[coreystinson]

Corey I wish you would have contacted me about this.

Really? Figured you might be wondering where your item was at then, considering that you paid? Never heard from you either though. Odd.

[coreystinson]

There are two at fault here. Cornbreadfed has taken an item and not paid for it, which is bad form and ultimately theft. Corey, however, should not have let the item go until he got the payment.

Hold your horses. I never mailed him anything and don't believe I said that I did. I am merely citing two non-payers.

I have a suggestion: those of you who thought the original post was useful/mental note type of thing, take it for what it's worth and hopefully you will not have the same problem.

The rest of you who want to complain about SMALLJOES.COM policies, etc. can start a new thread and I'm happy to discuss it with you until mods close it.

[cornbreadfred]

Go ahead and run my name into the ground. I am out of here, this forum is just not for me.

[coreystinson]

hworth18's corroboration notwithstanding - I guess since neither of us followed up with each other after an agreement was reached, we are both equally at fault. Is that the board's assessment?

[toyktdlgh]

hworth18's corroboration notwithstanding - I guess since neither of us followed up with each other after an agreement was reached, we are both equally at fault. Is that the board's assessment?

I don’t know about everyone else but I would say I agree with that statement. I would have contacted them first and then I would have bent over and taken it in the arse.

[mikeg]

like a real man, no doubt, not a candy arse!

[flyboy_fx]

Maybe some one should have tried to work it out before they trash someone .

[vulgarvulture]

I think lack of common courtesy is rampant in today's world.

Specifically to this forum, and relating to some members on this forum whom I have dealt with, I find it complete BS to approach me with more than passing interest in an item(s), be provided the final shipped cost which is in line with what was previously communicated, then never respond, not even to my follow-up PMs. And to do it more than once. That is really bizarre behaviour and flat-out rude. Next thing I know they are off posting on other forum topics without missing a beat.

You people know who you are.

[flyboy_fx]

I think lack of common courtesy is rampant in today's world.

Specifically to this forum, and relating to some members on this forum whom I have dealt with, I find it complete BS to approach me with more than passing interest in an item(s), be provided the final shipped cost which is in line with what was previously communicated, then never respond, not even to my follow-up PMs. And to do it more than once. That is really bizarre behaviour and flat-out rude. Next thing I know they are off posting on other forum topics without missing a beat.

You people know who you are.

I can GUARANTEE that I will not screw any one over. If I did my mom would shoot me!!! I mean it!

[digger]

Unacceptable to start a thread to say someone is a bad trader b/c a deal fell through, particularly b/c you did not lose anything except a few minutes of your time. I realize time is money (believe me), but since this is a hobby of ours we typically don't consider time on this board as business, though I imagine you do.

This is not a knock against smalljoes - a company that I've had no problems with - but perhaps a heads up to Corey that you might not make the best trader on here to the extent our forum is an extension of your business.

Is it annoying when someone says they want something and then don't? Yes. But it is nothing more than that - particularly seeing as how you didn't have time in your busy day to follow-up. Follow-up is a courtesy around here, and you've shown none. There may not be time for that when you're running your website, but if you avail yourself to our community then you should make some for us.

And to all the people I've flaked on - you know who you are - here is my official apology.

[hworth18]

Here is my .02 in this deal since I have been stiffed also...

Cornbreadfred contacted my about buying a Franklin Mint B-25 I had for sale. We PM'd back and forth an he asked if he could send me a money order on Monday.. No problem.. He then PMd me on Tuesday with this message:

"Hi Harry,

How are you today? I wanted to let you know your postal money order is on its way to you priority mail for the Franklin Mint B-25 model. Please let me know when you get the money order, and when you mail the model to me. Thanks so much...... Fred"

Needless to say, two weeks later, I never got the money order and when I PM'd him about it I got no response. This is the same BS that Saberfan pulled on me too.
So, does Corey have a legitimate gripe? I would say so..

[coreystinson]

but perhaps a heads up to Corey that you might not make the best trader on here to the extent our forum is an extension of your business.

I participate on this forum as a collector of this product as well, I am not here strictly to advertise my business and I think an examination of my posting history would confirm that.

Nevertheless, you are correct that I would and will handle my trades or personal deals in the same business-like manner that would with the business itself. If that is not appropriate here, and apparently it isn't, I agree with you that refraining from any further personal dealings of this nature would be best and that is what I shall do.

[Sabrefan]

I think about hworth18 every time I look at the beautiful 32nd scale Corgi Hurricane model I got from him some time ago. Oh well...........

[hworth18]

I think about hworth18 every time I look at the beautiful 32nd scale Corgi Hurricane model I got from him some time ago. Oh well...........

Yes, Paul, you did buy the Hurricane, but you also stiffed me on a deal or two, the last being said Hurricane that you eventually did buy after stiffing me on it once before.. Sorry bout the sore attitude, but I am a little miffed and it makes me not to want to deal anymore..

All I am saying is have some courtesy when dealing with fellow board members and if something happens, be a man, step up and say" Sorry bro I can't buy it" Is that really so hard to do?? I think not..

What also worries me is the general attitude of some members of "Oh well, as long as he didn't steal from you".. What is that?? SO I have to wait till I run across a "Bob Hughes before members become concerned and by then he's ripped off half the board? We should all be concerned about members that don't follow thru with deals because they could be come the next "Bob Hughes" or "Audie Murphy/ Delta Strike Force"..

[Jesse James]

Unacceptable to start a thread to say someone is a bad trader b/c a deal fell through, particularly b/c you did not lose anything except a few minutes of your time. I realize time is money (believe me), but since this is a hobby of ours we typically don't consider time on this board as business, though I imagine you do.

This is not a knock against smalljoes - a company that I've had no problems with - but perhaps a heads up to Corey that you might not make the best trader on here to the extent our forum is an extension of your business.

Is it annoying when someone says they want something and then don't? Yes. But it is nothing more than that - particularly seeing as how you didn't have time in your busy day to follow-up. Follow-up is a courtesy around here, and you've shown none. There may not be time for that when you're running your website, but if you avail yourself to our community then you should make some for us.

And to all the people I've flaked on - you know who you are - here is my official apology.

I agree with Digger, and he pretty much said what I would've. But to reinforce it somewhat...

On other boards the rules are pretty well stipulated that you don't air personal grievances in public till a THOROUGH effort has been made to hash the issue out in private. And even then you should contact the site's administration first, and then a public posting of negative feedback is warranted.

The things I find perplexing are:

A) This is over nobody losing anything... Nothing at all. That's just not koscher in my book. You didn't lose your product, Corey, and Fred didn't lose his money (I hope, as I feel sure he didn't send cash if he sent payment). To start a thread like this, as was put, "unacceptable". This would actually earn you a pretty hefty penalty at some forums even, maybe suspension or banning if it's a continuing problem.

B) No effort was even made because you're "too busy"? Seriously? You're on a collecting forum as a collector and you're pulling out the, "I'm too busy to drop a PM" line?

I really mean this as no offense but that's a bad excuse. I do all the things a normal adult does too... Job, Girlfriend who has 3 kids, 2 boys active in sports and I've coached them in the past, I've done extra selling on the side to make extra $$$, run my own business, take care of aging parents, pets, home improvement projects on a routine basis, and work for a couple sites...

Normal stuff, but if I'm on here pi$$ing around I really can't bust out the, "I'm too busy" line, is all I'm saying. I'm sure you are real busy because that's the nature of private business, and family and all that, but when you do deals on forums you have to make them something of a priority too when you pop online. Drop the PM to whoever and just politely ask if they're interested in the item still, where the payment is, or if they're wanting to back out.

It's their RIGHT to back out too if nothing's been mailed, not a privilage granted by the seller, so you can be annoyed but I'd just make a memo not to deal with that individual in the future then. It's happened to me too... I have 3 Celebration 3 Darth Vader's here right now that I picked up for guys who backed out because they bought them online while I was at the show. It happens.

The thing about this is, all it takes is a PM back and forth to get the issue cleared and taken care of. It's disappointing to see this thread at all, and to see several parties now offended in all directions.

And in closing, I've never had Digger flake on anything, and consider him a top trader. Nothing like a little butt-kissing to bring everyone back to hugs and happiness right?

Come on, seriously, none of this is worth everyone jumping ship or "giving up trading" or whatever. You wanna trade, trade, but just remember the other party has a life too, and try to be courteous and keep those lines of communication OPEN!

Just some etiquette I use...

-On trades, I will only send simultaneously with people who can provide references for feedback on here. The site here does NOT have a good feedback system in place, and so trading here can be tricky. Generally I stick to classifieds then.

-On classified issues I tend to insist upon references and if they're there from established sellers/buyers here, I am ok with sending the money then first. If not I insist on seeing the item is sent before payment or I just don't do the deal. I may also ask for Ebay feedback and such.

[coreystinson]

I really mean this as no offense but that's a bad excuse.

Well, you (and digger) and I disagree. I believe than when a deal is struck and there has been a agreement to pay, the onus and responsibility then falls on the buyer to either follow through and pay -OR- explain why he/she hasn't done so. It is a dearth of honor and personal responsibility to do otherwise. In my experience, people that behave otherwise do it repeatedly until called out. That is my personal ethic on the matter and that is how I handle my transactions when I am a buyer.

[coreystinson]

It's their RIGHT to back out too if nothing's been mailed, not a privilage granted by the seller

BTW, where did you come up with this one? This isn't supported anywhere in common law (offer + acceptance = binding transaction) even eBay says 'no-no' to this. And, even if backing out is OK which I would agree that it is under some circumstances, it is up to the BUYER to take responsibility, step up to the plate, explain the situation not just hide and hope it goes away. Again, goes to personal responsibility, don't put the seller in the position of babysitter.

[VMF115]

This is such a Bull $hit thread it needs to be locked, cleansed, and tossed out in to the bone yard.

[aferguson]

i've been silent until now because the trading and feedback from it are supposed to be self policing. The B/S/T forum is a courtesy set up by Britt to aid members in acquiring and selling items. The members leave feedback for each other etc. Ebay rarely gets involved in feedback disputes, only in very specific circumstances such as vulgarity, racism etc. and even if feedback is a blatant and obvious lie they won't alter or remove it. I know this from personal experience.

And, except for one post i edited an insult out of, the discussion here has been pretty civil, so there was no reason to lock the thread. And there still isn't.

Good points have been made by both sides. Personally, i feel that if you agree to buy something, it's a verbal contract and you should follow through with what you've obliged yourself to do. If you don't, you put yourself in a poor light and risk members refusing to deal with you in future. But as no money or goods were lost, i don't think it required a 'bad trader report'. Those shoud be reserved for rip offs, not piss offs and should only be made after time and effort have been put in via pm, email etc to rectify the problem...they're a last resort.

So i guess what i am saying is everyone is wrong here...lol. The people who agreed to purchase should have followed through and if they can't or won't for some reason they should at least give a sincere explanation and apology. And Corey jumped the gun by starting this thread and should not have, in my view. But as i said, feedback is self policing here, just like it is on ebay.

So, you all can continue to discuss this til you're blue in the face, or drop it, as i don't think it's going anywhere......but just keep it civil and mature.

[Jesse James]

It's their RIGHT to back out too if nothing's been mailed, not a privilage granted by the seller

BTW, where did you come up with this one? This isn't supported anywhere in common law (offer + acceptance = binding transaction) even eBay says 'no-no' to this. And, even if backing out is OK which I would agree that it is under some circumstances, it is up to the BUYER to take responsibility, step up to the plate, explain the situation not just hide and hope it goes away. Again, goes to personal responsibility, don't put the seller in the position of babysitter.

I totally agree the buyer should've contacted you as well, but from what was said, a payment was sent. I don't know the specifics on time though. If it had been a long time I would've wondered where my stuff (or my money) were. If it had not been too long I wouldn't have been too upset and just waited a bit. But taking Fred at his word, he made some effort... You on the otherhand only made an effort when you felt slighted and that's where you're equally wrong as well. You preach responsibility, but you really took none yourself as I see it. I'm just calling this like I see it.

If it were important to you (which it certainly appears to be), you'd have made some effort to communicate, and that's my main point. Communication isn't something I think only one person in that can be blamed with.

The place where your verbal contract argument runs into trouble, is that goods/services were NEVER exchanged. He never got a payment to you, you never got the product to him. You both agreed to do a deal but neither of you lost anything, neither of you took steps to make contact either. Take a similar situation to a small claims court and see how quickly it would get tossed out. You're not out anything but writing some PM's or emails... Hardly reason to throw public tirade. You surely had an agreement in some verbal form, but neither party came through on it, and nobody suffered any loss/damages because of it.

And like Aferg just said, the feedback is for rip-off, not piss-off. You weren't out anything. Nor was Fred if his payment has just been canceled. The only basis for anything is people were annoyed.

I totally agree about responsibility though Corey... If it were me I would've contacted you if it had been several weeks, but that's me. However, I would've also contacted Fred had I been in the other place in the situation. If I'm holding something for someone who says they want it, at some point I'll drop them a friendly note/reminder. In some cases I've just let it go though and sent them a PM saying I'm out of the deal because we've exchanged nothing and I'm not going to wait for them any longer. Case closed.

I've had that exact thing happen to me here and it never even crossed my mind to "write them up" publicly for it. I just remembered it for future reference so I didn't deal with it. I wasn't out my toy, or money, and so I was quite happy actually.

I can't argue with you on the issues of responsibility though, as I agree people should communicate, but I think both parties should have, not just one or the other.

[Rowsdower]

You know what this thread needs?

[flyboy_fx]

You know what this thread needs?

*throws rosdower of a cliff*

[digger]

I participate on this forum as a collector of this product as well, I am not here strictly to advertise my business and I think an examination of my posting history would confirm that.

For the record, I totally agree with that. And it is nice to have a candid Etailer around, that's for sure.

[pickelhaube]

I take every chance to sell my wares on this forum. If it were not for you guys I do not know what I would do.

Making toys is how I put food on the table.

I hope I do not go overboard.